this sunday, out of office. my exclusive interview with former vice president mike pence. >> i've never been a fan of american presidents criticizing america on foreign soil. >> his thoughts on the second trump administration, and the direction of the republican

party. >> there's no question in this administration that he is surrounded appears to me, with people that nurture his more protectionist instruments. president trump returned from his trip to the middle east amid new concerns about his trade war as the world's largest retailer warns higher prices are on the way. >> with the level of tariffs that have been proposed is challenging for all retailers and suppliers and certainly our concern is consumers will feel some of that. >> i will talk to the treasury secretary scott bessent, and listening in, audio of former president joe biden's interview with the special counsel investigating his handling of classified documents, it renews the debate over his fitness for office. >> trump gets elected in november 2017, 16, 16. >> i will talk to democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut.

joining me it's andrea mitchell, ashley attend, former communications director to vice president harris, and stephen hayes, editor of the dispatch. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press". from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is meet the press with kristen welker. good sunday morning, president trump returns to washington after his trip to the middle east, and he is touting what he says are new, critical investments in the us economy. it comes as his agenda back home is facing new challenges and as he's planning for direct phone calls with the leaders of russia and ukraine on monday. against that backdrop i sat down with his former vice president, mike pence, on friday, at his home in indiana. >> let me ask you about

president trump's first official overseas trip to the middle east this week, where he met with the newly installed president of syria, he dropped all of the sanctions against the country despite israel's opposition, the trip included stops in saudi arabia, qatar and the uae but did not stop in israel. sir, what message do you think president trump's trip sent to israel overall? >> first off, i think it was a very successful trip for the american economy, the president secured a financial commitment in all three countries including a historic contract for purchasing boeing aircraft. it'll really support american jobs and i don't game say that. but kristen, i've never been a fan of american presidents criticizing america on foreign

soil. and to have the president in saudi arabia questioning america's global war on terror and describing it as nationbuilding and interventionist, i thought it was a disservice to generations of americans who wore the uniform and took the fight to our enemy in afghanistan and in iraq. particularly giving that speech in saudi arabia, where 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers hailed from. i'm not including osama bin laden. i thought it was unfortunate. >> let me ask about another aspect of president trump's trip . he said that he was going to accept a $400 million luxury jet from qatar, to use as a temporary air force one. he said he will eventually donate that to his presidential library. do you think president trump should accept a military

aircraft from qatar. >> first we have to remember who qatar is. we've got a military base there, i have members of our immediate family that have deployed to the region. but, qatar has a long history of playing both sides. they support hamas, they supported al qaeda. qatar is actually finance, pro-hamas protests on american protest across the united states. so the very idea that we would accept an air force one, from qatar, i think it's inconsistent with our security, with our intelligence needs and my hope is the president reconsiders it. i think if qatar wants to make a gift to the united states, they ought to take that $400 million and plowed it into

infrastructure on the military base. >> you are saying president trump should turn down the plane? >> i think he should. look, others have observed there are profound issues, potential for intelligence gathering, the need to ensure the president of the united states is safe and secure as he travels around the world and also, there are very real constitutional issues, the constitution prohibits public officials from accepting a present in the words of the constitution, a present from a forei state. now, they may have some basis through chain of tile of avoiding that but it's just a bad idea. my hope is the president will think better abouout it. >> let me ask about an issue that you raised, president trump's tariffs obviously have been a big theme of the second administration. president trump says foreign countries pay for the tariffs,

he says they are going to make the country rich and yet you have said, you've called them the trump terror attacks, why? >> well, first off, the initial reciprocal tariffs that he unveiled would be the largest peacetime tax hike on the american people in the history of this country. as i said, i'm glad he's paused that, and as we are seated here, i understand the president is going to make an offer to 150 countries but look, he and i talked many times about trade, here in indiana, we are one of the leading exporting states in the country. what we make here, what we grow and raise here, we sell around the world. i've always believed that trade means jobs but i've always come to expect trump's willingness to use tariffs to negotiate as we did with the new trade deal with canada and mexico, renegotiated south korea, we were well down the road of a trade agreement with japan, with the uk, with the eu, during our time, but there's no question in this administration

that he is surrounded it appears to me, with people that nurture his more protectionist instincts, and as the president has said to me many times, he has a sense that other countries pay tariffs. when the reality is, when americans buy goods overseas, the company that imports those goods in the country pays the tariff and more often than not, passes that along at higher prices to consumers. and i worry about inflation, we just heard walmart made the announcement they will be raising prices in the wake of these tariffs. my view of tariffs overall is this. we ought to be aggressively negotiating for free trade with freemasons. we ought to use the threat of leverage to bring down trade barriers and subsidies. >> well, to that point, let me ask you about the tears from the first term. they added some $80 billion in

higher prices for americans, increased prices on things like tires and washing machines, why didn't you say, during your first administration. >> you told president trump that directly ? mark >> well sure. when you are vice president of the united states, i favor the president with the full range of my opinion in private. then when he made the decision, my job was to support his decision, absent some higher calling that one has, and i fully supported his approach on tariffs but i was never confused about who pays tariffs. >> let me ask you about the war in ukraine. there were talks in turkey this week between russia and ukraine but none of the principles were there, zelenskyy wasn't there, putin wasn't there, president

trump wasn't there, president trump said the only way to get a deal is for him to meet with putin, face-to-face. knowing what you know about vladimir putin mr. vice president, do you think he ll ever be serious about making a deal? >> it's been roughly 3 years since russia launched its unprovoked, brutal invasion in the ukraine. hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost. at the outset of the war i actually travel with my wife across the border to a refugee center. saw hundreds and hundreds of women and children of every age fleeing from the russian invasion. i would return there a year or so back and meet with president zelenskyy. and here again about the horrors and deprivations of the military. i've met vladimir putin. my judgment is vladimir putin only understands strength and,

you know, president zelenskyy has agreed to a cease-fire, thirty-day cease-fire that are european allies called for, vladimir putin calls a meeting and then he doesn't show up for it. so i honestly think the time has come for president trump to impose a harsh sanction on russia and also to increase military support for ukraine. i think those two messages making it clear, in combination with the presence good, recent dialogue with president zelenskyy that took place at the vatican and in addition to the new mineral deal which i think sent a deafening message to moscow that america and ukraine are here to stay. i think the time is now for sanctions against russia, additional sanctions against russia and also renewed military support for ukraine.

i think that, and only that, has the potential to bring vladimir putin to the table and achieve a lasting peace. >> last month president trump directive the attorney general to review two people he believes to be political foes including chris crabb who called the 2020 election the most secure in american history. do you ever worry that president trump will order an investigation into you for your actions on january 6th? >> i don't worry about it. i regret some of the rearview thinking that the administration has, for people that did their job. some of the cancellation of security details around people like secretary of state, mike pompeo and john bolton. i think it's regrettable, but you know, elections are about the future. i think the american people elected president trump to return to the white house to focus on the future. and if i

had a word with him, i would encourage him to keep eyes forward, and embrace the better angels of his nature and all of these issues. >> you were awarded the john f. kennedy profile in courage award for your actions on january 6th. president trump parted nearly 1600 people who were criminally charged in connection with their actions on january 6th. you said pardoning people who assaulted law-enforcement quote, sent the wrong message. what message did those pardons said, sir? >> first let me say i was deeply humbled by the recognition that we received from the john f. kennedy library. president kennedy was a hero from my youth, still is. and to be in any way associated with his legacy and americans that he wrote about in his famous book, was one of the greatest honors of my life and i'm truly grateful. but look, i

will always believed by god's grace i did my duty that day, to support and defend the constitution of the united states and seated the peaceful transfer of power but individuals who broke into the capital, who assaulted police officers, i said that day and i believe at this moment should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. now i will say, kristen, i know there were people that came into the capital that day that just walked through an open door. meant no harm, did no harm, those people, every single one of them, if they were caught up in the legal system, they should have been pardoned but the people that engaged in violence, you know we are at the end of police week in washington, d.c., that's where the families of fallen officers come to our nations capital every year, to remember those

who died in the line of duty. and the heroes on january 6th were all wearing uniforms. they held the line, they made it possible for us to secure the capital, reconvene the congress and complete our work under the constitution on the very same day. for my part, i will always believed to have pardoned the people who assaulted police officers that day, was wrong. >> would you ever consider running for president again? >> you know, i don't see that in the future. our family has been blessed in so many ways. i'm a guy that grew up in a small town in indiana, i dreamed of being a congressman. i got to live that dream but the opportunity to be governor in indiana and go on to be vice president of the united states was beyond anything i mentioned. i had a chance to run for president, but i will tell you from my heart, kristen, what i

feel is my calling, is exactly what called me to the republican party in the days of ronald reagan and that is, i want to be a voice for conservative values. i want to be a voice for policies enshrined in the united states. that's what defines us as americans. i want to be a champion of the conservative cause and that's what i will stay focused and we will let the future take care of itself. >> do you rule out running for president ever again based on what you are saying? >> i have no plans, i don't see it, but as i said, we will keep standing for everything we've always stood for and we will let the future take care of itself. >> we will have much more my conversation with former vice president pence coming up later in the broadcast but, first, when we come (v o) kate made progress with hr mental health, but her medication caused unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so her doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily, extended-release td treatment for adults.

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downgraded the united states credit rating from its aaa rating. moody said it's because of the nation's debt. joining me now is treasury secretary scott bessent. secretary best friend, -- bessent welcome to "meet the press". let's start right there, with moody's downgrading of the nations credit rating, and they do cite the data. it says, quote, if the 2017 tax cuts and jobs act is extended which is are based case, it will add around $4 trillion to the deficit over the next

decade. several republicans mr. secretary, are citing similar concerns. does the president's tax bill need to do more to address the nation's debt and deficit? >> kristen, first of all, i think moody's is a lagging indicator. i think that's what everybody thinks of credit agencies. larry summers and i don't agree on everything but he said that when they downgraded the u.s. in 2011, so, it's a lagging indicator, and just like sean duffy said with our air traffic control system, we didn't get here in the past 100 days, it's the biden administration and the spending that it's seen over the past four years. we inherited 6.7% deficit to gdp, the highest, when we weren't in a recession, not in a war, and we are determined to bring the spending down and grow the economy. >> fair enough, but under president trump's first administration, he had an $8 trillion -- added $1 trillion,

so there's plenty of blame to go around -- >> no, let's review. we were in the rescue portion of covid. the biden administration was in the recovery portion and kristen, it would have been, if not for senators mansion and cinema who are no longer in the democratic caucus, it would have been four to $5 trillion more. >> it did include the tax cuts as well. but let me ask about walmart, they say they will start raising prices on its consumers mr. secretary, as early as this month, due to the tariffs. now president trump, out with a very stern warning on social media saying, walmart should quote eat the tariffs adding the company made far more than expected last year. is the president asking american companies to be less profitable? >> i was on the phone with the ceo of walmart yesterday, and walmart is, in fact, as you describe it, eat someme the tariffs, just as they did in

18, 19 and 20. the other thing though, that we are seeing, that with their consumer, the singular most important thing is the gasoline price. gasoline prices have collapsed under president trump. so we are seeing that. the other thing that will happen, that is a direct tax cut for consumers, then the transportation costs are also a big input, so let's see what happens. what you are describing was walmart's earnings call. the other thing the companies have to do, they have to give the worst-case scenario, so that they are not sued, so, you know, i think overall, we are seeing a decline in services and we saw inflation come down for the first time in four

years. >> well, in my conversation with former vice president mike pence, he says he sees tariffs as a tax. how far is the administration willing to go to prevent ceos from increasing prices? >> i think what we are hearing here, as people are saying tax increases or inflationary, when i was testifying before congress last week, one of the congressman said that and i said well congressman, taxes are inflationary, let's cut taxes, so let's get this tax bill done, bring down taxes which according to this line of thinking should be dis- inflationary. >> but the federal reserve has said that tariffs are inflationary, just to be clear. you said you called walmart, is that what ceos can expect that you, that the president, other members of the administration will prop -- applied pressure to stop them from passing this on ? mark >> i didn't apply any pressure, doug and i have a good

relationship and i just wanted to hear it from him, rather than second and third hand from thpress and as i said, this is often their earnings call, and on an earnings call, you have to give the worst-case scenario. kristen, to go back to what you say, the federal reserve is not saying that tariffs will cause inflation, they are saying they're not sure and they are in the wait and see mode. >> let's talk about the other big news that you were a part of a week ago in switzerland, negotiating with china's officials. you and the administration lowered tariffs from the high rate of 145% to 30%, for 90 days to allow talks to continue. but president trump said previously and i'm quoting from him, china needs to make a deal with the u.s., we don't have to make a deal with th, so why did the united states back down? >> neither side backed down. both sides realized as i have said, that it was unsustainable, so we have the equivalent of an embargo, which is not what either side wanted.

it was this constant -for-tat escalation, so both sides brought the tariffs down by 115%, so, for 2025, we have increased tariffs on china by 30%, they have increased them by 10 on us. we now have a mechanism in place to continue the talks. >> okay, on friday, as a piece of this, president trump, while he was on the foreign trip, said countries should expect letters from you, from secretary lutnick saying this is what the tariff rate is going to be, mr. secretary, does that effectively mean that these negotiations with other countries are over, and how high should ey expect tariffs to go, about 10%? >> this means they are not negotiating in good faith, they are going to get a letter,

saying, here is the rate. i expect everyone would come and negotiate in good faith. >> you expect that rate that use that you would slap want to be above 10%? >> i think it would be the april second-level, some countries were at 10%, somewhere substantiaially high, and the negotiating levers that president trump is talking about here is if you don't want to negotiate, it will spring back to the april second-level. >> i have to ask about the war in ukraine, president trump saying he's going to speak with president zelenskyy and putin on monday. former vice president pence told me it is time to impose harsh sanctions now. what say you, mr. secretary, is it time to impose sanctions against russia? >> i think we will see what happens when both sides get to the table. president trump has made it very clear that if president putin does not negotiate in good faith, that the united states will not hesitate to up

the russia sanctions along with our european partners. when i can tell you is the sanctions were very ineffective during the biden administration, because they kept them low, because they were afraid of pushing up domestic oil prices. >> very quickly, how long the timeline before you move to sanctions. how much time? >> look, i'm not going to tie the presidenent's hans in his negotiations. >> let me ask you, former vice president mike pence echoed several of president trump's quite frankly own allies, and expressing concerns about this plane that qatar has offered to president trump. they are saying it sends the wrong message, it sends the wrong message and raises concerns ethically, constitutionally, and about security. why is it appropriate for the

president to accept a $400 million jet from qatar. >> it's not the president accepting it, it would be the united states government and senator mullen said this weekend that the talks had begun under the biden administration, so kristen what i can tell you, is i think this is an offramp for many, in the media, not to acknowledge what incredible trip this was. president trump has brought back trillions of investments in the united states, every stop we made, the enthusiasm, in saudi arabia, in qatar, in the united arab emirates to invest in the united states, that they want to push more and more, and if we go back to your initial question, who cares? they've made 10 year investment plans, so this administration were doing trade deals, peace

deals and tax deals. >> quickly, trump has said that he plans to keep the plane in his presidential library after. but what do you say to some republicans who say it seems as if other countries can curry favor if they give gifts? >> the gifts are to the american people. there's trillions of dollars in investments that are going to create jobs in the u.s., whether it's the uae, building this gigantic aluminum plant in data centers that qatar is going to do, it's $600 billion on its way to $1 trillion from saudi, that all accrues to the saudi, that all accrues to the american i'm maya and these are my breasts. from sports bras to minimizer bras... we've had a complicated relationship. and then, i found a lump. breast cancer.

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and establishes a charitabled trust to keep the craft alive for generations to come. from preserving a cultural tradition to leaving a legacy, a raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your passions, and the way you enrich your community. that's life well planned. welcome back, joining me now is democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. welcome back to "meet the press".

thanks for being here. you just read my conversation with the treasury secretary scott bessent, we were talking about the presidents tax bill. secretary bessent argues it will create hundreds of billions of dollars in economic growth. you obviously are one of the democrats who opposes this bill. are democrats standing in the way of the economic growth that seetary bessent was just arguing? >> what we are standing in the way of the most massive transfer of wealth from the poor and the middle class to the wealthiest in the country. it's a disaster. it will kick over 10 million people off of their healthcare, medicare covers a quarter of all americans, in order to pass along a new trillion dollar tax cut for the richest 1%. nobody in this country is asking for that. and in addition, it's going to dramatically drive up the deficit. i heard the treasury secretary say, who cares about the downgrading of our credit

rating from moody's, that's a big deal. that means we are likely headed for a recession. it probably means higher interest rates for anybody out there who's trying to start a business or to buy a home. these guys are running the economy recklessly because all they care about is that health of the mar-a-lago billionaire class, they only care about their corporate friends. they are going to destroy this economy and through millions of people off of healthcare, so they can pass along a benefit to a small handful of rich americans. it's deeply unpopular and my hope is that it will pass, that enough republicans see that nobody is asking for that massive investment in only a small handful of americans and they will vote against it. >> you raise the issue of moody's downgrading the nation's credit rating of course they do cite the debt that the nation has accrued of course, over decades, and why didn't democrats do more to address the debt when you all were in power? >> i think it's important to remember that some of the most important legislative achievements during joe biden's presidency were done in a way that reduce the deficit. in fact the inflation reduction act, which made massive investments in renewable energy

and prescription cost, was done in a way that drove down the deficit. most of the deficit was added under joe biden's presidency, that was in the early days when we were still recovering from the pandemic but there's no doubt that it was donald trump who added more to the deficit than any other president in the country and he's on pace to do it for a second time. it will greater the economy and it won't have an impact on his billionaire friends, his mar-a- lago crowd will come out all right but it will impact the regular people i represent in connecticut. >> biden did see $4 trillion added under his administration. i like to talk about the newly released tapes from mr. biden's 2023 interview with special counsel robert hur, show him struggling to recall key moments including the dates, the death of his son, beau, as well as one former president trump was elected, take a look.

>> what's happened in the meantime is that, as, and, trump gets elected in november of 2017 -- >> 2016. >> 2016. >> senator, is this audio proof that president biden shouldn't have run for reelection? >> i don't know that that's a particularly fair, but obviously in retrospect, the president should have gotten out of the race earlier, there's no doubt the democratic party would have been better served by having the ability to have an open primary, kamala harris probably would have done

very well in the process but in retrospect, we lost. so we can't defend the way in which our politics played out. listen, what i've said is, like anybody who reaches that stage in their life, you know, there is some level of diminishment, but i got to work with the president . closely in 2022 and 2023 and i saw a president passing legislation and helping the american people at an unprecedented rate. that being said, by 2024, the american people have decided they wanted somebody new, they wanted somebody younger and it was a mistake for democrats to not listen to the voters earlier and set up a process that would have gotten us in a position where we could have been more competitive that fall. >> the new book, original sin by jake tapper and alex wilson, goes even further and details what they called a cover-up, from the white house, from top aides around the president, here's a little bit of what

they have written, quote, one senior white house aide, who left because they didn't think biden should run again, confessed to us that we attempted to shield him from his own staff, so many people didn't realize the extent of the decline beginning in 2023. do you think, some top officials in the biden white house covered up the state of his mental health at the time? >> i haven't read the book and i don't know what to say about the allegations they made, but i know that i worked with him throughout 20 and 22 on the gun bill which has saved by the way, thousands of lives, he was intimately involved in those negotiations. i was in the white house in the fall of 2023 doing an hour and a half long meeting on some really complicated development of the middle east and i saw a president who was in control. so that's my experience but i

admit that by 2024, the american public have made up their mind that they wanted the democratic party to nominate somebody new, and it was absolutely a mistake for the party to not listen to those voters. >> to be clear, do you bear responsibility as well? >> we all bear responsibility, and i think maybe we didn't listen as early as we should have in part, because we have immense loyalty to this man who led this country out of a pandemic, who have been maybe the most prodigious legislator as a president, the inflation reduction act, the bipartisan gun bill, and a generation, but ultimately, in retrospect, you can't defend what the democratic party did because we are stuck with a madman with a corrupt president in the oval office and we should have given ourselves a better chance to win. >> i asked treasury secretary bessent about the jet that qatar is offering to the president of united states. president trump said it would be quite, stupid, not to take it. what is your response?

>> why did he choose these three countries to go to for his first major foreign trip? it's not because these are our most important allies are the most important countries in the world, it's because these are the three countries willing to pay him off. every single one of them have given trump money, the plane from qatar, investment in his cryptocurrency scam from the uae and they are asking him for national security concessions in return. this is the definition of corruption. foreign governments putting money in the presidents pocket and the united states giving them national concessions that hurt our own security by the way, the plane is not a gift to the american people as the secrety said, it is going directly to donald trump. the library will take a decade to build, so once he leaves the white house, until the libraries billed, he gets to use that plane to fly around all of his billionaire friends, all of his billionaire friends, while his policies result big drug companies

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welcome back, former vice president mike pence left washington in 2021, and ran for president against his former boss in 2024. in my conversation, i asked mr. pence, what his relationship is like now, with president trump. >> you of course recently saw president trump at the funeral for former president jimmy carter. do you ever talk to him, does he ever reach out to you for any counsel at this point? >> you know, there were difficult days at the end of the administration. but what's not widely known is the president and i parted very amicably. he thanked me from the tarmac of andrews air force base and my family, my name, for the service we did to the country and for him.

we would speak several times a month in the days after we left office. the day i went to the inauguration, the president called me and we talked for an hour about conversations i had with people on the platform but what saddens me was several months after we left office, he returned to much of the same rhetoric that he had used in the run up to that fateful day of january 6th and talking again about the election being stolen and suggesting that i could have had the ability to overturn the election. and that was where i came to the conclusion that we best part ways. i did see him at the carter funeral and we had a warm exchange. i stood up, i shook his hand and i said congratulations, mr. president. and i could tell, he softened and said thanks, mike, and i congratulated the first lady as well. it was a good moment, and i

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welcome back, the panel is here. nbc news chief washington correspondent andrea mitchell, coanchor of pbs news anchor, stephen hayes, editor and ceo of the dispatch and ashley secretary bessent, former, to vice president harris. andrea, a lot to unpack. president trump coming off his first foreign trip. it comes as he is preparing for these key talks on monday, with president putin, with president zelenskyy, what are you hearing about the talks and the fallout from the trip? >> right now, the secretary of state oday is meeting along with jd vance, with zelenskyy at the vatican and in his

homily, pope leo called for peace in ukraine. but, with president trump talking to vladimir putin, he has never pressured putin and any conversation we know of. he has pressured zelenskyy. so wee don'tknow what's going to come out of that. there is growing support for sanctions. you heard secretary bessent say they would hesitate and now lindsey graham says that. bipartisan support for that. there were other big outcomes of this trip. the opening to syria is a big deal, but what others are talking about, i talked to top diplomats among our closest allies. they are concerned that first of all the deals that secretary doesn't talked about, a lot of those were negotiated under joe biden, president trump is taking credit for them. and secondly, there was a lot of dealmaking by his sons, and a lot that was being done for his own advantage, they've been very open about this, and it's

frankly disturbing, what our closest allies are talking about, the normalizing of what they call personal corruption that is taking place this term, >> let's talk about the deals, because that is sort of a big overarching theme of this administration. here, you have president trump trying to get a deal with congress for his agenda, as he's trying to get this deal, to end the russia and ukraine war. how do you see all of this unfolding, at what is really a critical juncture here. >> obviously the russia ukraine deal will ride on whether or not

president putin is acting on good faith. it's worth noting that russia launch the largest drug -- drone attack overnight in ukraine and that probably tells you everything you need to know about how putin sees the moment so big questions on that. on the budget deal, look, this is a key part of president trump's second term agenda when it comes to cutting taxes and border finding and spending, the fact that that did not pass with republican support in the budget committee, it's a setback for the president obviously the concerns there are people calling for more cuts, they are concerned about the things that you cited with secretary bessent that this could add $4 trillion to the deficit but the history matters as well. this is not reach the full chamber, president trump was away. what i'm hearing is when he gets back, he is going to get more personally involved, he's already used to social media megaphone to apply some pressure saying republicans need to unite around us. we've seen him call individual lawmakers, twist arms, get things across the finish line and republican lawmakers haven't stood up to him yet on any of the major issues whether it's resending funds, pushing

through his nominees for the cabinet. it's hard to see if they will stand up to him on the one thing that matters most. >> so much is riding on this bill, and it does come against the backdrop of moody's downgrading the nation's credit rating. the tariff wars that continue, and you heard's secretary bessent saying they're going to have to pass some of these prices on, saying walmart said to him, they will eat some of the cost, not all of them but some of them. i mean, talk about this moment from a political perspective for the president because there is a lot on the line. >> there sure is. we witness the death of a talking point this morning, with president trump's post yesterday on social media, he's made the case for years including repeatedly throughout his campaign that foreign countries pay tariffs. that's not true. as scott bessent told you today, walmart is going to eat some of the tariff, this is something the president encouraged walmart to do but walmart doesn't need to eat the tariffs if the foreign countries are paying it. so we know that's not true. anyone who's paid even casual attention to tariff policy, they understood what the

president what was saying, it wasn't true. but it would be better if we have that conversation based on economic facts and history rather than rhetoric. >> it's a fascinating point that he put a fine point on that idea that tariffs are paid ultimately here in the u.s., actually i have to turn to you and turn the conversation to former president biden. all the revelations this week. i want to read something that a biden spokesperson said about the audio that we heard from his conversation with the special counsel, he said the audio does nothing but confirm what is already public, take us inside your conversations, how much does this moment hurt democrats? >> i agree with the spokesperson, i don't think it has any impact, but this is how i see it. the question is why release this tape now? it's clear to me that trump released the tape because he's trying to distract from his disastrous, first 100 days.

we've all been talking about that at the table today. so to me, that's what at play. imagine the situation where you are so desperate, so underwater on every issue that you play your best card in the first six months of administration, so the way i see this is, it's good for joe biden, good for the democratic party because we can dispense with this now. >> you think it's good for joe biden? >> it's raised questions about his decision not to get out sooner as you just heard chris murphy say. >> i think the problem with the democratic party is that we have not produced an autopsy, we have not produced an assessment of what happened in the election and to address this issue head on, if we were to, we could coalesce, and move past it. >> what are you hearing, tough moment for potential 2028 contenders. >> there was a lot of affection for joe biden but it really has evaporated to a great extent, because of how terrible the trump presidency in your description actually, has been,

in the first 100 days but mostly because people remember what they saw, you know, what are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes. people saw the debate and immediately after the debate, they realized, democrats as well as republicans, that this was a terrible mistake, he should not have run, whether or not he and his family and his closest advisers thought that he was up to it then, they had to look forward four years, fi years and by the time the campaign was over, and his health, it would have continue to diminish. he was not aging well. he didn't look well and people wanted a change. and they wanted a primary and president obama and nancy pelosi were right about that, but nobody was willing to push hard enough, and certainly the caucuses did not move quickly. >> i keep hearing the word trust, democrats feel like they've got to rebuild trust. >> that is the challenge, democrats will be asked about this in the back of the book, on the audio being released, if you had a concern that biden was 20 before, some of these

things confirmed that now but the consistency i'm hearing from some democrats when they are asked about this, people who were close to him who saw him regularly, even in the final months, maintain that they never saw anything like what they saw at the debate in private and they also say, it's not going to be an issue in 2028. >> i'm sorry, that's crazy. that's crazy for them to say. one of the things the book does is it provides chapter and verse, detail after overwhelming detail that they did now and everybody knew. >> the public knew, we knew. we watched it in real time. >> andrea is saying we don't have a party and that's part of the problem. >> the question is how does joe biden respond as this book unfolds? i really think the issue is that this runs the risk for perceptions of his legacy. there's two issues, we could look backwards, litigate the past or move forward but joe biden will have to determine that. if his team continues to be defensive on this issue, it will compound the problem and

it's also going to have implications for his legacy. >> this is his legacy. so my great conversation, thank you all for being here. that's all for today, thank you for watching, we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press".

a beating in heartland. more severe weather overnight after deadly storms sweep across the southwest tohe south over the weekend. more rain is expected today. michelle is tracking it all and joins us with the forecast. an outpouring of